Tortured Logic – Now They're Just Making S**t Up

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My Favorite radio host, Mark Levin, was just on his buddy Sean Hannity’s radio show, proclaiming that the enhanced interrogations of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed resulted in the disruption of a terrorist plot to attack Los Angeles. Problem is, the plot was disrupted in 2002, and KSM was not captured until 2003. Levin is saying that there was a second plot that was thwarted, but there is on record of that anywhere online, just speculation. There is one memo dated May 2005 between Principal Deputy Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury and the senior deputy general counsel for the CIAJohn A. Rizzo that says there was a second plot discovered through torture, but it has no details, and seems rather empty considering there has never been any mention of specific circumstances of the “Second Wave” plot, which could have been used to bolster President Bushes rational for using these techniques. This has all the stench of the Super-Dooper Santorum WMD Memo of 2006, a super secret doc that was going to prove menacing WMD’s were found in Iraq, which turned out to be paper dud, though it did show him to be a complete idiot contribute to his loss in the 206 election.

And, remember, this IS the same Bush appointee led CIA that , in the past, has not been shown to be, well, honest, and denied for instance they ever had any tapes of interrogations, up until the moment that it was revealed they had destroyed at least two of these non-existent tapes. I wonder if any of those tapes involved sessions with Khalid Shaikh Mohammed cofessing the “Second Wave”. I guess we’ll never know.

Tortured Logic – Bybee And The Real World

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As most now know, memos written by then Assistant Attorney General Jay Bybee have become know as “The Torture Memos” because they justify the use of torture harsh interrogation techniques on GWOT detainees. Here is the conclusion from on of the first memos, written.

For the foregoing reasons, we conclude that torture as defined in and proscribed by Sections 2340-2340A, covers only extreme acts. Severe pain is generally of the kind difficult for the victim to endure. Where the pain is physical, it must be of an intensity akin to that which accompanies serious physical injury such as death or organ failure. Severe mental pain requires suffering not just at the moment of infliction but it also requires lasting psychological harm, such as seen in mental disorders like posttraumatic stress disorder. Additionally, such severe mental pain can arise only from the predicate acts listed in Section 2340. Because the acts inflicting torture are extreme, there is significant range of acts that though they might constitute cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment fail to rise to the level of torture.

Here is the U. N. definition of torture, as stated in the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, to which almost every nation in the world, including the U. S. has signed on to:

For the purposes of this Convention, the term “torture” means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

Notice that there is no mention of the length of mental (or physical, for that matter) suffering that the detainee has to endure in order for an act to be described as torture.  So where does this “refined” definition of torture come from? I have been unable to confirm, but one commentator on NPR has said that the U.S. wanted a length of mental suffering clause added during the ratification process (it’s in the audio link). Even if that’s true, fact is, they didn’t get it. So Bush’s legal team changed the definition of torture to fit their needs.

But lets put that aside for the moment.

The rational Bush lawyers used to redefine waterboarding, and other torture techniques, as not being torture, especially when looked at through the lens of mental health, is based on the finding derived from a military training program called SERE, an acronym for Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape. The program was devised as a way to train military personnel to withstand torture and interrogation by subjecting them to torture techniques they might experience if held captive by torturous regimes such as the U.S. North Korea. The torture method were in fact modeled after those used by the North Koreans on U.S. soldiers during the Korean War. Several studies do show that there are few instances of mental stress disorders associated with soldiers who have competed this training, who were tortured. Problem with this argument is, these soldiers not only volunteer to go through these procedures, they knew what to expect, but also there are safeguards in place, such as safety words or hand signals the soldier can use to stop the torture if it becomes too difficult. I suspect Gitmo detainees and other enemy combatants had no such luxury. They thought they were going to die. For real.

Let’s contrast this to a real life situation, and show how absurd it is to claim that undergoing torture of the kind the U.S perpetrated under G.W. Bush would have no long term effects. Let’s say you are taken hostage by a gunman. He has you sit on your couch for three hours, then lets you go. This might damage your psyche in of itself. But lets say it doesn’t. OK, let’s say the gunman, instead of having you sit on the couch, blind folds you, tapes your mouth shut, slaps you around (all approved techniques), puts you in the trunk of your car (isolation – approved), drivers around for hours (disorientation – approved) , drives through a river deep enough that water is leaking into your trunk and you’re afraid you’rer going to drown (waterboarding – approved), then parks and abandons the car during the cold night and your not found for a day where the temerature in the trunk gets up to 105 degrees (temperature extremes – approved – though illegal if it happens to dogs or cats). Now it doesn’t matter that the gunman actually has no intention of killing you (even if he tells you so, would you believe him?). That’s not the point. Will you argue there will be no serious long term psychological issues to deal with after this. Will you?

To those who are supposed “Reaganites” (Levin, Hannity, Rush, Savage) Ronald Reagan was the President who approved of the U.S. signing on to the U.N. definition of torture, which DOES NOT include a length of suffering clause in the definition. And, it also says this:

“No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture” and “an order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture” (Art. 2 (2-3))

Reagan approved of and signed on to the ratification of this document. So will you now argue he was wrong? You are not only NOT following his lead, but are in stark opposition to his ideals, as usual.

And, if you don’t know what a safety word is, here’s a primer.

Tortured Logic Pt 2: Headline VS Truth

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Here’s the headline for this story.

“Harsh techniques Brought Good Info”

This is a line deleted from a memo written by Adm. Dennis C. Blair, Obama’s national intelligence director. The Rush echo-chamber will surely be running with it 24/7, or until the next thing comes along. The story actually goes on to raise doubt about the accuracy of the statement, then, the guy who wrote that in the memo goes on to say:

“The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means,… The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security.”

Tortured Logic

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“If somebody can be water-tortured six times a day, then it isn’t torture.”

Rush Limbaugh.
April 20, 2009

“If someone can listen to Rush torture logic for three hours a day, then it isn’t logic”

Sonicfrog
April 20, 2009

On the drive home from sub’ing today, I waded through Sean Hannity’s and Fred Thompson’s radio programs and both are steadfastly defending the right of the United States to torture. As a former member of the Republican party, I’m ecstatic that I got out when I did. The continued defense of torture, especially when we now know more of the details, the fact that they didn’t produce results, the fact that it led our investigations on false leads (as I predicted)…. To say I’m appalled would be an understatement of tortured proportions. As long as Rush, Hannity and Thompson et. al. are leading the Republican media machine, that party will never regain my vote. Here is McCain explaining why we can’t torture. It’s something I teach my students. Actions have consequences. Now THAT is REAL logic.

PS. Who thought it would be a great idea to put Fred Thompson on the radio. The show is about as energetic and interesting as his presidential campaign. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Fresno In The News – The Mendota March For Water.

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mendota march

I know the Tea Parties made the news cycle this week, but there was another protest that, in my eyes, was much more important, because unlike the Tea Parties, this one may have an effect and change policy concerning the ultimate goal of the march; to get more water to the Central and West San Joaquin Valley..

As covered in the New York Times, protesters trekked from Mendota to the San Luis Dam, a three day hike, in order to bring attention to the severe water shortage in the San Joaquin Valley. Many west valley farmers cannot plant this year Though there is a drought, that is not the principle cause of the shortage. This water shortage is the result of both overzealous environmental rules, pumps in the Sacramento delta that bring water to the valley have been shut down due to concerns over the endangered delta smelt fish, and also due to the lack of investment in California’s water storage capacity for the last forty years. I ranted on this topic earlier this year. The San Joaquin Valley, due to an inept state government, is in very real danger of becoming the new “dust bowl’ of the twenty first century.

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The DHS Report – An Incisive And Thought Provoking Deconstruction Of The Controversey.

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Thomas More, Thomas More,
Suing for your rights.
Soon every extremist in the land
Will be joining with his band
He sues the DHS
For issuing a repor(t)
Mr More, Mr More, Mr More….

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OK. This Is Just Crazy!

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Pat, Chris, Cliff, Kevie – you have some work to do!

Repeat Thursday.

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A favorite post from December of last year… “Music Is Comedy!

Breaking News… And It's Not Politics!

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It’s Sports!

Even though I will have another political post out today, this seems more important for some reason. John Madden has announced he is retiring from broadcasting. Yes, that’s right. No more mutant turkeys presented during the Cowboy’s Thanksgiving day football games…. unless you count the play of Dallas quarterback Tony Romo!

Why Is There No Coverage Of This On MSNBC?

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Here is a map of all the Tea Parties going on today. As of 6:53 AM, there is not one mention of it on the MSNBC portal.


View 2009 Tea Parties in a larger map

Now there is mention, if only brief. And the two paragraphs are about the partisans who hijacked the protest movement (which I’m not happy about BTW). I have no problem with the media pointing this out, but gee, wouldn’t it have been nice if they would have been so skeptical about the amnesty, or million man, or anti war protests from a few years back? It would also be nice if they would, you know, do some basic research that might show that many of the organizers on the local level are still taking great pains to keep these things as non partisan as possible. I mean, come on, how can they possibly stop FOX news from deciding to promote this?

Anyway, the Sonic-Mate, his mom, and I are going to the Fresno TP sometime today. Maybe I’ll live blog.